Legislature(2021 - 2022)BARNES 124
04/15/2021 08:00 AM House COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB127 | |
| HB163 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 127 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 163 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 163-FORM OF SIGNATURE ON VEHICLE TITLE
8:08:32 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN announced that the final order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 163, "An Act relating to vehicle title
applications."
8:09:20 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY moved to adopt Amendment 1 to HB 163,
labeled 32-LS0666\A.1, Dunmire, 4/13/21, which read as follows:
Page 1, line 1, following "applications":
Insert "by dealers in motor vehicles"
Page 1, lines 3 - 8:
Delete all material and insert:
"* Section 1. The uncodified law of the State of
Alaska is amended by adding a new section to read:
VEHICLE TITLE APPLICATIONS BY REGISTERED DEALERS.
Notwithstanding AS 28.10.211(b)(1), if the owner or
buyer of a vehicle is a dealer in motor vehicles, an
application for title or transfer of title must
contain the signature of the owner in ink or in
electronic form or, if there is more than one owner,
the signature in ink or electronic form of at least
one of the owners and the name of each owner stated in
the conjunctive or in the disjunctive. In this
section, "dealer in motor vehicles" means a person
registered with the Department of Administration under
AS 08.66.010.
* Sec. 2. Section 1 of this Act is repealed
June 30, 2023."
8:09:30 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND objected for the purpose of discussion.
8:11:12 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX asked for confirmation that Amendment 1
would limit the ability to sign electronically to licensed
dealers.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY answered that's correct. He added that
Amendment 1 has a repeal date of June 30, 2023, "to allow for
time to get the system up in place to take it to the next level
of signature."
8:11:49 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE, regarding the idea that the Division of Motor
Vehicles (DMV) is not ready to address electronic signatures for
title transfers, said that is why HB 163 is not a mandate but
instead would give the DMV the flexibility to allow electronic
signatures when it is ready to do so. The same point stands in
terms of the repeal date, he added. He said the proposed bill
is limited in its scope; it is "a first bite at the apple" to
encourage the DMV to begin preparing for electronic signatures.
Furthermore, he said he does not think those who sell two or
three cars in a year should be "precluded from the benefits of
this once the DMV is ready." He stated his preference to see HB
163 passed unamended.
8:14:35 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE said he cannot agree with Amendment 1. He
opined that the conservative approach is to remove regulation
and restrictions. He said the sponsor's bill removes "the same
two words in two places" thus allowing the DMV to [issue titles]
electronically, and he said he thinks it is a good bill.
8:15:45 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY responded that the intent of Amendment 1
is to protect Alaskans of fraud. He noted that the State of
California limits electronic signatures [for titles] to car
dealers, and he speculated that may be for the protection of the
citizens of the state. He said Amendment 1 would ensure that
the state has "an effective system."
8:17:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX said he thinks "it would be good to think
about this for a while."
8:18:05 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND concurred with Representative McCabe.
She opined that HB 163 was "simple, elegant, and provides
options for any kind of seller," and she expressed concern that
Amendment 1 may limit the use of electronic signature only to
registered dealers, and there are a lot of non-dealers who sell
cars and would be excluded; therefore, she stated her support
for HB 163, unamended.
8:18:56 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND maintained her objection to the motion
to adopt Amendment 1 .
8:19:00 AM
A roll call vote was taken. Representative McCarty voted in
favor of Amendment 1 to HB 163. Representatives Drummond, Prax,
McCabe, Schrage, and Hannan voted against it. Therefore,
Amendment 1 failed by a vote of 1-5.
8:19:40 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN noted that late the prior evening her office had
received communication from the DMV in response to a question
that had been asked at the prior hearing on HB 163; the division
supplied a list showing the many instances where signatures are
referenced in DMV statutes. She clarified that the DMV was not
recommending HB 163 be amended.
8:20:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY asked for clarification.
8:21:12 AM
JEFFREY SCHMITZ, Director, Division of Motor Vehicles,
Department of Administration, said [the list provided by the
Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV)] has to do with sections in
statute that refer to a certificate, which can be implied to be
a piece of paper. The list provided refers to those instances
where "certificate" appears in statute - not necessarily
specifying "in ink". He said the recommendation would be to add
something like "or electronic verification" following
"certificate", which would allow either certificate or
electronic signature. He clarified that HB 163 "referenced one
... specific section of statute where it talked about 'ink'."
He said, "... That would be in conflict to these other multiple
places in which the statute refers to 'certificate'."
8:22:56 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE said he would be uncomfortable "adding all
these without knowing what they are." He suggested passing HB
163 out of committee and then getting in touch with him to
address this issue in a separate bill.
8:24:03 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE echoed that HB 163 is a narrow bill with a
simple approach to address those places in statute that refer to
"in ink". He said he thinks there is opportunity to expand by
introducing legislation to address the certificate issue. He
concurred with Representative McCabe that addressing the list
would require more investigation.
8:25:06 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX asked Mr. Schmitz if, from the perspective
of [the DMV], it would be worth waiting and doing "the whole
list at one time."
8:25:48 AM
MR. SCHMITZ responded that "getting started" would be easiest.
Eventually the list will need to be cleaned up in statute, but
there is no rush, he added. He said the DMV would take the
direction of the legislature as to whether it addresses the
simple form of HB 163, as currently written, or legislation
expanded to encompass the list as a whole.
8:27:06 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND offered her understanding that the
revisor of statutes [within the Legislative Legal Services
agency] could make recommendations on additional items. She
recommended passing HB 163 out of committee today.
8:28:21 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY asked for clarification on what
Representative Drummond was suggesting. He expressed concern
about the committee's job of fully vetting proposed legislation.
8:28:59 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN interjected to remind committee members that the
list from the DMV was not a recommendation but a response to a
"where else" question asked by Representative McCabe. The
proposed legislation identifies where "in ink" could be amended
to include electronic signatures; the DMV list highlights a
similar theme by finding all the places where "certificate" is
used, which has been interpreted to mean paper, and considering
whether those references could be amended to include electronic
signatures. The list is not in amendment form and is much
bigger than the scope of the proposed legislation. She said she
is not inclined to change HB 163, because it is a first step,
and the DMV can come back with further recommendations in
future.
8:31:01 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE clarified that the DMV had been asked what
hurdles may stand in the way of modernizing a process, and the
clear first hurdle is the verbiage "in ink". He concluded:
We may need statutory changes down the line, but that
is not clear today, and this bill will allow us to at
least remove that first, very clear hurdle that we
know will be an issue, so that we can then further
explore that issue and hopefully get to a point where
consumers, businesses, and the general public can
benefit from a much more efficient and flexible
process of digital signatures.
8:32:37 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE indicated that he likes HB 163 as a first
step.
8:33:23 AM
MR. SCHMITZ, in response to Representative McCarty and Co-Chair
Schrage, offered his understanding that there is no reference to
"in ink" in any of the passages referred to in the list of 64
instances of "certificate".
8:35:19 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMON moved to report HB 163 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes. There being no objection, HB 163 was reported out of the
House Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 127 version A.PDF |
HCRA 4/15/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 127 |
| HB 127 Sponsor Statement version A 3.16.2021.pdf |
HCRA 4/15/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 127 |
| HB 127 Sectional Analysis version A 3.16.2021.pdf |
HCRA 4/15/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 127 |
| HB 127 Letter of Support Maniilaq 3.15.2021.pdf |
HCRA 4/15/2021 8:00:00 AM SCRA 1/27/2022 3:30:00 PM SCRA 2/3/2022 3:30:00 PM SFIN 4/21/2022 9:00:00 AM |
HB 127 |
| HB 127 Support Letter University of Alaska 3.9.2021.pdf |
HCRA 4/15/2021 8:00:00 AM SCRA 1/27/2022 3:30:00 PM SCRA 2/3/2022 3:30:00 PM |
HB 127 |
| HB 163 Sponsor Statement 4.9.pdf |
HCRA 4/15/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 163 |
| HB 163 Support Letters 4.14.21.pdf |
HCRA 4/15/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 163 |
| HB 163 Fiscal Note - DOA - DMV 4.10.21.pdf |
HCRA 4/15/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 163 |
| HB 163 Ver A.PDF |
HCRA 4/15/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 163 |
| HB 163 Amendment A.1 04.14.21.pdf |
HCRA 4/15/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 163 |